According to various news outlets, the New York Giants have released veteran linebacker and defensive captain Antonio Pierce.
Although AP had one year remaining on the contract he signed in 2005, his age and the bulging disk he suffered last season almost certainly played a role in this decision.
“I’m doing great, feeling great,” Pierce wrote. “Looking forward to endless possibilities. Loved every moment as a NY GIANT.”
Say what you want about the man – and call him all the names you can – but much of the Giants success since 2005 stems from what he brought to their defense. And without him commanding the middle, there’s a good chance Big Blue would not have won the Super Bowl in 2007.
On behalf of Giants 101 and most other Giants fans, I say thank you to AP.
Once a Giant, always a Giant.
February 11, 2010 at 1:52 PM |
Not surprising at all. We knew this was probably gonna happen. Lets just hope Goff isn’t our starting MLB next season.
February 11, 2010 at 2:00 PM |
Pierce was huge for this team up until 2008. Shame it all came crumbling down. wont forget that one armed tackle of brandon jackson.
February 11, 2010 at 2:01 PM |
Repost:
I see some of the off-season craziness is setting in. It was just a matter of time I guess.
First of all, I find it amusing that people are demanding Osi be traded for being a poor locker room guy (and playing poorly after serious knee surgery) yet tout Peppers as some sort of great leader. Seriously? The guy is notorious for not playing up to his potential and taking plays off. Maybe a change of scenery will do him some good but let’s not pretend he’s some Strahan like leader out there.
I really, really like Gerald McCoy. However, I also really like Brian Price and Lamar Houston. If this were a weaker draft, I’d have no problem trading a future 1st rounder to move up and grab him. However, I find it difficult to get behind that idea with the depth of this draft. There’s just talent all over the place, specifically at positions of need (S and DT), and I’m not sure trading up and giving up a ton (because that’s what it’ll take) is our best option.
February 11, 2010 at 2:02 PM |
I think if it wasn’t for the med issue they’d have at least brought him to camp. But a disk problem is serious.
February 11, 2010 at 2:04 PM |
Repost: AP had minimal natural talent. As soon as he stopped working hard he fell off. Couple that with his age and build and the guy looked like a emperor penguin out there. He was a major part of the championship squad so he should no longer be the dog now that he is no longer a liability. But we need to bring in Dansby stat. We need a veteran in a very young corps. If Dansby is off the table than Brackett or Fujita is a must.
February 11, 2010 at 2:09 PM |
Honestly, while I have HATED seeing AP on the field the past 2 seasons…overall, AP’s tenure in NY was great. I wish him nothing but the best!
February 11, 2010 at 2:12 PM |
Here is the breakdown on the tenders for Restricted Free agents this offseason. Will be interesting to see who the Giants tender at what price
2010 Restricted free agent tags
Four years of experience
Original pick compensation: $1.176 million
Second round tender: $1.759 million
First round tender: $2.521 million
First and third tender: $3.168 million
Five years of NFL experience
Original pick compensation: $1.226 million
Second round tender: $1.809 million
First round tender: $2.621 million
First and third round tender: $3.268 million
http://go2.wordpress.com/?id=725X1342&site=gmen101.wordpress.com&url=http%3A%2F%2Fprofootballtalk.nbcsports.com%2F2010%2F02%2F11%2F2010-restricted-free-agent-tags%2F
February 11, 2010 at 2:13 PM |
Glad it happened, but I’m surprised he was the first one to get the axe. I thought for sure that would be Rocky Bernard. And here’s to hoping the rumors about the Giants being very interested in Dansby are true. Let’s also hope that the Cards don’t tag him again.
February 11, 2010 at 2:13 PM |
I would honestly prefer Demeco Ryans over Dansby or Brackett…but I don’t like giving up a 1st and a 3rd for him…when we pick in the top 15. If we were like…25th or higher, I would pull the trigger in a second though.
February 11, 2010 at 2:28 PM |
Well im glad that his time as a giant is up but thanks for all the great play in the past he was the leader of the defense and i wish him the best.. i agree i dont believe goff is ready to b our starter im all for dansby but really want mcclain in the draft.. not sure how realistic tht is at this point
February 11, 2010 at 2:29 PM |
Howard told the crew that Antonio Pierce of the NY Giants was interning on the show today, as he wants to pursue a career in broadcasting when retires from football. Antonio added that he was also planning for the future by investing in real estate and refusing to overspend on cars and jewelry.
Howard asked Antonio which Giants players were gay, but Antonio refused to say – though he did “jokingly” throw out Jeremy Shockey’s name. Howard tried a different tack, asking who had the biggest penis in the locker room, and Antonio stonewalled him there as well: “To me, I got the biggest one.”
Howard played some clips of Sal and Richard pranking Antonio while he was screening calls. Sal and Richard came in to let Antonio strike back by snapping them in the
ass with a towel. “Oww! He is good at that! AAAAHHHH! He got the inner-like, right under my ball! You’ve had some practice at that.”
http://www.howardstern.com/image.hs?ts=1&i=/10_56341.jpg
February 11, 2010 at 2:32 PM |
Good luck to AP…
Aren’t the normal RFA tenders: original, 3rd, 1st, 3rd & 1st? Does the lack of a new CBA change that 3rd to a 2nd? Weird…
February 11, 2010 at 2:37 PM |
Dan’s right. Pierce gave this team a lot in his prime. Overall he was a great free agent signing for us. But the last few years the way he let himself go was tough to watch. Pierce went from one of my favorite players to one of my least favorite players overnight. I am just glad the coaching staff has finally realized Pierce is done. I am really hoping for Dansby. The only concern I have with getting Dansby is that will take a DT in the first round and he will be the second coming of WillyJo. I know we need a DT badly, but I just can’t forget about the last time we picked a DT in the first round. WillyJo still haunts me (Sinorice Moss too….haha) I would rather us take a safety or OT if they sign Dansby.
February 11, 2010 at 2:40 PM |
Wow! I’ve been really sick all day today and haven’t been at my computer at all.
Holy cow! (Pun)
February 11, 2010 at 2:51 PM |
B-b-b-but… who’s going to call our defensive signals now?
Without AP’s savvy and diagnostic skills back there, we’re doomed; DOOMED, I tell you.
February 11, 2010 at 3:01 PM |
well like everyone wanted pierce is finally cut .. i’ve always been a pierce fan and lobbied for him but he has gone downhill i just hope someday he becomes a coach for big blue because his mental intangibles were invaluable. let’s just hope they find a definitive replacement for pierce in FA or the draft because like its been stated above goff isn’t at that level ..yet and the yet is too long this has become a win NOW football team after missing playoffs and having to watch the jets in the playoffs. Let’s hope Reese gives us a solid team to watch this season and for seasons to come he’s done mostly a good job so far.
February 11, 2010 at 3:09 PM |
Thank you Antonio! Say what you want, Pierce was a great Giant…sad to see him go like this.
February 11, 2010 at 3:10 PM |
Keep in mind on restricted free agents: just because a guy is tendered at a 1st and 3rd doesn’t mean the Giants can just send their picks and sign him. The other team can match the offer. So to get a restricted free agent, you don’t only lose your draft picks, you also have to overpay contractually to keep the team from matching your offer.
That means, we will not be signing any restricted free agents. We can stop wishing for DeMeco Ryans and D’Qwell Jackson.
February 11, 2010 at 3:14 PM |
Yeah I have been saying that for a month…Ryans and Jackson are NOT happening…It is basically Dansby, Peppers, Sharper and whomever gets cut by their current teams in the next few weeks
February 11, 2010 at 3:14 PM |
wlublake – yeah, that sucks. I really, really, really would love to have Ryans!
February 11, 2010 at 3:14 PM |
The tough part about it Norm is we would be doomed with AP.
Even with the Williams brothers playing DT, Pierce was just physically shot. He is an excellent signal caller and on the field coach.
I wish him well. At the same time it does feel like the FO is starting to get it. Hopefully the other physically unable to perfrom will be released in the coming months.
Perhaps the wheels are truning about moving up and taking a backer, or making a run at Dansby, or Rymes. Maybe the light just truned on in the head shead.
February 11, 2010 at 3:18 PM |
Anytime a veteran with a solid career is released I wonder, will he play again, for whom, and how well will he do? Of course, it gets tricky with QBs. I suspect AP will fade from the NFL pretty quickly. Kareem McKenzie is a tougher decision. Will he excell somewhere else or will be end up like Luke P ?
February 11, 2010 at 3:27 PM |
Jared- Were not cutting McKenzie. There is no heir apparent to his position. Beatty is a LT and thats where he should go
February 11, 2010 at 3:27 PM |
Giants’ decision to cut Pierce shows lack of cap won’t make teams overspend
http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2010/02/11/giants-decision-to-cut-pierce-shows-lack-of-cap-wont-make-teams-overspend/
February 11, 2010 at 3:40 PM |
I am happy about this. Yes, he gave us some good years, but I think he was a big part of the problem over the past few years and represented everything I despise about Coughlin’s coaching approach. No need to go into that any longer. Good-bye and good luck.
I don’t know how anyone can claim that Goff is incapable of being the starting linebacker when Pierce had a significantly less impressive career in college, was undrafted, and through brains and hard work made himself into a pretty good MLB who was very useful AS LONG AS HE WAS SURROUNDED BY TALENT. Pierce by himself was never more than a very average linebacker. So all of you saying Goff is terrible are essentially saying that based on 1/3 of a season of play there’s no chance that he can become a better-than-average, or even average, MLB. I just don’t see how after seeing such a small body of work you can credibly say that.
My assumption is that if Clint Sintim is what he’s supposed to become and either the Giants get Dansby or Boley or Kehl becomes a stud at WILL (wasn’t everyone here except me convinced Boley was the greatest thing since sliced bread when Reese signed him? Perhaps you were right, and he’ll prove it when he’s healthy) Goff will be good enough until we have a chance to draft a really great player to beat him out if he can. That could wait until at least next year.
Antonio Pierce, if nothing else, proved that you can have a great defense (2007) without having a MLB who is much more than adequate. For my part, I think Jon Goff, given another year, will be significantly better than Pierce at his best. I’m not saying he’s Dick Butkus, or Mike Singletary, or even DeMeco Ryans, but he’ll be good enough. I wouldn’t object to drafting someone to come in and compete with him, but I wouldn’t be upset if he’s the starter in 2010 as long as there’s talent around him. He looks like a complementary player, not a dominant one, but great teams need those players too.
February 11, 2010 at 3:41 PM |
I don’t know if it’s so sad to see AP… or anyone… go out like this. You have to figure that he’s 31… in the prime of his life… and he’s made probably around $30,000,000. That’s not really a bad deal.
Sure… if he could have played longer then he’d be even more fabulously wealthy… but still… there’s nothing sad about his life.
February 11, 2010 at 3:43 PM |
I’m not saying Goff is terrible. But he’s had a year on IR and a year on the field. LBs usually light it up right off the bat. And he didn’t. I can’t really remember one standout play.
February 11, 2010 at 3:45 PM |
will always be remembered for that amazing tackle against the packers in the 2007 nfc championship game
February 11, 2010 at 3:51 PM |
Yeah… he blew up that screen just like a professional MLB… that was his shining moment for sure… the airhorn was right up there too… very funny.
But he kind of erased it all by being an absolutely lousy team captain… and facilitating Plax’s downfall… which started the avalanche of shit that’s led us to the miserable situation we’re in now.
I’m not crying any tears for AP. The Giants made him rich and famous… and in return he helped destroy the team.
February 11, 2010 at 3:53 PM |
will always be remembered for blowing his airhorn after the week 2 loss to the packers…
February 11, 2010 at 3:57 PM |
One thing you have to say for AP… he left with dignity… unlike Toomer ad Tiki.
February 11, 2010 at 4:02 PM |
Krow & Co. – re: Goff. Welcome to the dark side, my friend.
Welcome to the dark side.
February 11, 2010 at 4:18 PM |
There he is! How did I know that the trolls would be out in full force following this news? Not heard from since Week 17.
G101- Where The Real Bryan McCoy Goes to Talk Shit About the Giants Whenever Something Bad Happens!
February 11, 2010 at 4:30 PM |
I wouldn’t mind if they brought him back as a lb coach or assitant coach.
February 11, 2010 at 4:31 PM |
I said long ago that I wasn’t impressed with Goff. He was constantly injured playing nothing but special teams and then got placed on IR after a concussion or whatever it was. Then he came in had one nice sack, a gift-wrapped INT, and minimal tackles. As previously mentioned, there usually isn’t a learning curve involved with LBs. When Wilkinson came in against the Pats, he played well immediately. When Kehl played some games, he played well immediately. Goff came in and was no better than Chase Blackburn, maybe even slightly worse. That along with his injury issues the previous season leave me less than excited about him. We’ll see what happens I guess.
February 11, 2010 at 4:39 PM |
When’s Bernard, CC, Wilkinson, Moss, Danny Clark, Koets and Wilkinson getting cut?!
February 11, 2010 at 4:42 PM |
Didn’t mean to put Wilk twice…sorry 55.
February 11, 2010 at 4:47 PM |
Has Jonathan Goff been on the team long enough to have demonstrated “injury issues?”
Could a possible explanation for the “minimal tackles” he made be due to the fact that he was ONLY ON THE FIELD FOR 6 GAMES?!
Might the sample which we are all using to evaluate this fifth round pick be so flawed and small that it is impossible to say whether he was “unimpressive” or “average?”
Seriously, guys?
February 11, 2010 at 4:49 PM |
Found it funny…the survey on the official website is “Who was the Giants defensive MVP” – I wish there was a “None” option.
February 11, 2010 at 4:50 PM |
Who was the Giants Defensive MVP in 2009?
DE Mathias Kiwanuka 13%
DE Justin Tuck 35%
DE Osi Umenyiora 8%
CB Terrell Thomas 32%
LB Michael Boley 13%
February 11, 2010 at 4:52 PM |
And for the record, of those…I voted for Terrell Thomas. I honestly think the guy is going to be a baller. He did pretty well last year, and I expect him to be even more seasoned this year. I can’t see Ross stepping in and taking his spot. I honestly think Ross is better suited, with his speed…as a nickel back…and maybe a 3rd down safety.
February 11, 2010 at 5:00 PM |
Maybe Ross is better suited on a track. I mean, u play football, you should have a football based workout not a track workout just bc your wife is a track star. He hurt us with his Hammy issues just as badly as CC and his “I cant cover your gradmama” issues!
February 11, 2010 at 5:06 PM |
Linebackers usually show something immediately? Then how do you account for Pierce, all of the Eagles’ linebackers, Harrison, etc.? Look, I’m not claiming that Goff is The Second Coming. What I’ve said is that I think he can be a better-than-average MLB and will prove better than Pierce. That isn’t a particularly high hurdle. And if he’s surrounded by talent elsewhere on the defense, somewhat-better-than-average will be good enough for the Giants. You cannot have a Pro Bowler at every position.
Moreover, Krow’s comparing the pretty strong outings for Kehl and Wilkinson to not seeing that from Goff is a little misleading. The OLBers play in space and have a much better chance to play obviously well, particularly when playing behind excellent DEs. Goff was expected to plug gaps, and was playing behind pretty horrid DTs. Different situations. Was Goff good? Not particularly. Does his not being really good in four games in which he played mean he will never be good? I think that’s a huge stretch. Can we now say he will never be great? Sure, but what does that have to do with anything? My bet is that there aren’t three MLBs in the NFL who could be called “great”, and that might be an optimistic count.
If we don’t have excellent OLBers then I think Goff will not measure up. If we do have strength at OLBer I suspect Goff will be just fine.
February 11, 2010 at 5:08 PM |
Goff stinks
February 11, 2010 at 5:12 PM |
arigsbee, they might as well cut Wilkinson twice. That’s twice as much chance as they gave him to add some real speed to a linebacking corps that desperately needed it.
I love that all the pundits are now saying “The Giants need to add some speed to their linebacking group” without ever noting that Kehl and Wilkinson, the fastest of their linebackers, were never given a real opportunity by this coaching staff. I’ve been pounding the table about this for three years. It should have been obvious to a high school coach. Spags found adjustments that allowed him to make use of his safeties and intense pressure up front to hide the serious problem of having slow LBers. Once the front collapsed in injuries there was nowhere to hide for the LBers, yet the coaches still made no attempt to add speed.
Idiots.
February 11, 2010 at 5:15 PM |
AdamGmen, well reasoned. How could I disagree?
February 11, 2010 at 5:15 PM |
arigsbee- Those players dont need to get cut because their contracts are up
February 11, 2010 at 5:15 PM |
In youth soccer we used to call that ‘the coach’s son syndrome’… meaning that the starting lineup was usually composed of the 10 best players AND the coach’s son.
Sure… Goff can be ‘the coach’s son’ in this scenario… but it doesn’t make him good.
February 11, 2010 at 5:17 PM |
I’d be happy to be proven wrong about Goff… and I’m not trying to rip the guy. I just don’t see where all the optimism is coming from.
February 11, 2010 at 5:18 PM |
The only play i remember Goff making was an INT against Mcnabb that I could have picked off. Goff=good speical teams guy.
February 11, 2010 at 5:22 PM |
Problem with Kehl is that while has excellent speed and agility he plays like a pussy. Hes pushed and dragged back a lot. He looks like Tarzan and plays like Jane
February 11, 2010 at 5:26 PM |
Still… of all our sub LBs, I think Kehl could have some upside. Wilks is fucked… we’ll never know what he could have been. And Goff… well even with the turnstiles we had ay DT this year, a good MLB would have stuffed at least a few plays… really stood them up… and he didn’t. He wasn’t very physical at the point of attack.
February 11, 2010 at 5:28 PM |
My idea of a LB is a crazy, go-for-broke, hitting machine. Sideline to sideline… mad dog. Who do we have that fits that bill…? Maybe Boley sometimes. That’s it. Jury’s out on Sintim.
February 11, 2010 at 5:31 PM |
Kehl has shown flashes of being good… But ill never forget when he got railed by Brent Celek when he was in perfect position to make the play in that second philly game.
Its almost insulting to watch Philly do what they did to us, they basically just went after our weaknesses over and over and over knowing that even if we had a guy in position to make them play they were helpless to stop it
February 11, 2010 at 5:31 PM |
FF55 – “My bet is that there aren’t three MLBs in the NFL who could be called “great”, and that might be an optimistic count.”
Karlos Dansby, Ray Lewis, Patrick Willis, Brian Urlacher are all pretty darn good.
February 11, 2010 at 5:34 PM |
I’m not sold on Goff. We need to go out and get a stud MLB like we did with Pierce at the time we got him. Get Dansby or trade up to get McLain. Goff had his chance last year and showed nothing.
February 11, 2010 at 5:34 PM |
Again, I ask this simple question: has Jon Goff or Bryan Kehl been on the field enough to make the sort of broad generalizations that you are all making? “Plays like a pussy”…”Gets pushed around”…”Good special teams guy…not a starter” etc.
Honestly, neither has acrued enough experience to have made any impact one way or the other. They could very well suck, or be average, or be great! We don’t know because they haven’t been on the field enough. What I’ve seen of Kehl is that he’s fast and made some good hits and had that one INT during the Steelers game 2 years ago. Goff had a good sack and picked off McNabb. Otherwise, he played fairly during the WORST 5 games of the season after the team, particularly the defense, had given up. He didn’t look great, but he didn’t look awful.
The point is that both of these guys possess skills and talents that a quality defensive coordinator ought to be able to utilize and maximize. Perhaps Fewell is that guy. We don’t know yet. So we shouldn’t make sweeping generalizations like these so frivolously.
February 11, 2010 at 5:35 PM |
jcrown – I agree
February 11, 2010 at 5:36 PM |
I am really surprised Bernard hasn’t gotten the ax yet. Maybe the only reason it wasn’t announced is because noone follows him on twitter.
February 11, 2010 at 5:36 PM |
Okay, I’ll end my comments about Goff by saying just a few things:
1) He was a very, very, good SEC player who was considered a stud his final two years in college and around whom most offenses game-planned;
2) In the Giants’ defensive system MLB is not so easily played right away;
3) Goff has played about a third of a season in toto, so there’s very little that can be concluded from his play in the NFL yet;
4) During his playing time he played behind defensive tackles who were consistently unable to keep offensive linemen off him so he was obliged to consistently fight through blocks to get anywhere near a ballcarrier. In plenty of defenses in the NFL the MLB is “protected” so he can get into the gaps and make a play one-on-one against the runner. That was NOT the case for Goff this past season;
5) Goff is intelligent, probably more so than Pierce, so can learn and call the defensive sets and plays; and
6) There’s absolutely no reason that a “good” player (not a great one, not a Pro Bowl one, not even one in the top third of his peer group) cannot be perfectly adequate at MLB if surrounded by talent. We live in a salary cap era, so there have to be some average players on the starting team. That’s reality. You cannot look for upgrades at every position every year.
I think it would be fine, frankly more than fine, if Reese goes and gets Dansby, drafts a top DT, figures Goff can hold down the fort for two years, asks the coaches to see what Sintim could do at MLB in preseason (they probably won’t, but they should…if Sintim could play there then Kiwi and/or Kehl could play SAM and along with Dansby or Boley would give us a pretty good-looking group at LBer), and drafts a top MLB in the draft after this one, figuring he will displace Goff by 2012 or 2013.
But I guess we’ll have to wait and see what happens.
February 11, 2010 at 5:38 PM |
Except that the coaching staff has seen these guys for years in practice. They can’t get on the field. Sure, some of it is pigheadedness… but not all. They can’t be lighting up practice.
Hell, we’re running Sinorice Moss out of town… talk about a guy who didn’t get game time… and who played well when he did.
February 11, 2010 at 5:42 PM |
Hanshi, Ray Lewis was great in his prime, but no longer. Urlacher looks pretty hobbled now and will never be considered great again. Dansby? That’s a real stretch. I want him, but wouldn’t call him “great”. Patrick Willis is probably the only one around now who I would call great. But maybe my standards are too high.
February 11, 2010 at 5:43 PM |
He was a very, very, good SEC player who was considered a stud his final two years in college and around whom most offenses game-planned;
———————————————————————————-
He was drafted in the late 5th round…a stud?
February 11, 2010 at 5:44 PM |
Kujo,
I liked Kehl in his rookie year. He didn’t really get a chance last year. I thought Goff was invisible the games he got a chance to play in. Someone said it upthread and I tend to agree. LBs usually are either ready from the start or they never will be anything. Year after year someone drafts a rookie LB and they are great right away or suck. Look at last year for instance: Cushing, Matthews, Malaluga all good right away. Patrick Willis and Demeco Ryans good right away. Jon Beason good right away. Just naming guys off the top of my head. The problem with the Giants and LBs is they keep drafting LBs in the 4-6 round hoping they will magically turn into great players. The only other way lately they have been getting LBs is signing bargain bin free agents hoping they pan out (Danny Clark and Kawika Mitchell (did though)) Boley was the exception and the book is still out on that signing. Sintim was a 2nd round pick and the book is still out on him because he was put into a system where he didn’t fit. The guy is a 3-4 OLB.
We need to get a young backer early that can be plugged in for 8-10 years. When was the last time the Giants used a first rounder on a LB? Was it Jesse Armstead?
February 11, 2010 at 5:45 PM |
Who was the Giants Defensive MVP in 2009?
————
The Bye weeks… those are the only times that the D wasn’t giving up 30+ point a game.
February 11, 2010 at 5:46 PM |
I gotta side with 55er here. Willis IS the only “great” MLB in the game today.
Below that though I would have to say its Lewis, Mayo, Beason, and Dansby in the very good category.
Lewis is obviously an all time player, but right now hes not where he was. Urlacher… eh not really anymore… Mayo, Beason, Dansby and possibly David Harris make up the next echelon imo.
February 11, 2010 at 5:47 PM |
Patrick Willis pl;ays in that weird TED LB set… so he’s always going to get lots of tackles.
February 11, 2010 at 5:47 PM |
LOL I was way wrong on Armstead he was an 8th round pick…lol
Last Giant 1st round pick used on a LB: Lawrence Taylor….how did that turn out?
February 11, 2010 at 5:48 PM |
I like Dansby a lot but my biggest concern is him moving from a 3-4 to a 4-3. Can he play as a 4-3 MLB?
February 11, 2010 at 5:49 PM |
FF55 – If they’re not great now, they were in their prime. I would do what we have to, to draft McClain.
February 11, 2010 at 5:49 PM |
Ive seen Bryan Kehl plenty of times. Ive seen him on the field several times with the Giants and Ive seen about 10 games from 2 years of while at BYU. Hes still the same guy.
Hell he was even critisized for it in camp. Whenever hes on the field he gets pushed around, hes not physical and he gets dragged when he tackles. Im going to keep saying this in relation to Bryan Kehl until he doesnt anymore. Because as of now, its a fact….
February 11, 2010 at 5:51 PM |
Terrell Thomas was undoubtedly the def. MVP this year
February 11, 2010 at 5:52 PM |
I cannot see Kehl playing the SAM linebacker spot. He just has not shown an ability to shed blocks. To me, I’ve always thought he was strictly a WIL since he left BYU and he hasn’t shown me anything to prove otherwise. I’m not trying to knock him by any means, because I do think he has talent and when he has played, he has shown flashes of being a very good LB, but only on the weakside.
As far as Goff goes, he hasn’t shown me anything to prove that he will be a good MLB in this league. Now, he hasn’t had much of a chance and he was stuck behind terrible DTs and was playing under one of the worst DC of all time. So, maybe he could turn out to be a serviceable MLB if surrounded by some talent at the OLB spots and at least one good DT in front of him, but as of now, I haven’t seen anything to support that. It doesn’t mean he can’t be good, but up until now he hasn’t been. To put it in perspective, Pierce averaged more tackles a game than Goff did playing behind the same DTs, with the same OLBs, and the same DC. Like I said, I’m not saying Goff can’t be good, but so far, he hasn’t shown it.
February 11, 2010 at 5:52 PM |
Hanshi- AZ runs a hybrid so it shouldn’t be an issue
February 11, 2010 at 5:53 PM |
Nobody should get def MVP, but who do you guys think was the biggest let down? For me it was without question Webster, he had some really bad games this year.
February 11, 2010 at 5:54 PM |
Factcheck,
I seem to remember a shutout in Tampa against the Bucs. Could be that I was there!
Jcrown92,
All valid points. I’m just saying that he may or may not be good. We don’t know. I’m totally on board with drafting a MLB first this year. Heck, I think we should trade up for McClain because he could be that guy we have all been salivating for for years. Still, if (perhaps WHEN) that doesn’t happen, I’m not going to freak because we have a guy who is at least as good as Pierce, but younger and less of a moron.
February 11, 2010 at 5:55 PM |
I’d say Canty… seldom has someone been paid so much and delivered so little.
February 11, 2010 at 5:58 PM |
And if I’m not mistaken… Corey Webster got $9,000,000 in 2009.
February 11, 2010 at 5:58 PM |
Haha Krow i agree Canty was a total bust this year.
February 11, 2010 at 5:59 PM |
Yea Webster got paid a lot too…and good WRs made him look foolish
February 11, 2010 at 6:00 PM |
ff55ys,
Having good OLBs around a MLB in no way influences how a MLB plays… For a MLB it is much more important to have good play from the DTs. Goff needs to prove that he can stuff the run, get his teammates lined up properly and make some plays. Which he has basically done none of.
How do you know that playing MLB in the Giants system is not as easy as other teams? Are you privy to the defensive gameplans? That sounds like a big fat excuse, backed up by no facts.
Almost every year rookie LBs come in and make big impacts I don’t even need to go down the rather long list.
Bottomline if the Gmen draft a stud in the draft or bring in a FA, that will be the end of the J. Goff experiment and he will be relegated to the bench where he belongs…right next to Wilkinson.
Wait, nevermind Wilkinson wont be there because he will either be cut or peddling on the exercise bike.
BTW…Sintim playing MLB is an absolute pipe dream. Guy was a 3-4 LB in college that rushed the passer and occasionally dropped into the flat. Not happening, guarentee you it doesnt even cross a coaches mind. He is more likely to be converted to DE.
I hope Goff turns into the next R lewis….but its not happening.
The one thought i do agree with you on is that Kehl deserves a shot to start. He played well when he stepped in as a rookie.
February 11, 2010 at 6:02 PM |
I know its prob. not happening but I want the Giants to draft McClain more than any player in this draft.
besides Suh and Berry, but those two will be gone within the first 5 picks. They may as well not exist in Giant fans minds
February 11, 2010 at 6:04 PM |
Pierce averaged just over 6 tackles a game in the games he started. 9 games played, 55 tackles. Goff averaged 3.6 tackles a game in the 5 games he started, 18 tackles in 5 games and that includes zero tackles against Philly. Yes he had an INT that game, but don’t kid yourselves because we all know that was gift wrapped. I can understand saying that he hasn’t been given a chance because he hasn’t, but don’t act like he’s been so much better than Pierce because he hasn’t.
February 11, 2010 at 6:04 PM |
I tend to agree that Kehl is only a good prospect at WILL. He doesn’t seem particularly strong at fighting through blocks. I mentioned him as a prospect for SAM without thinking he could really win the job. But I’m not convinced he might not be better at WILL than Boley, who also isn’t much against runs right at him. I don’t know. But I’m not willing to assume that because the Giants’ coaching staff doesn’t allow a guy on the field there’s no chance that he’s better than they guy who is out there.
Yeah, I am not at all a big fan of these coaches and I am not convinced of their objectivity. On the other hand, I think Tom Coughlin wants to coach this team for another seven years and knows that he won’t get to the second one unless he takes this team deep into the playoffs in 2010, so I’m hoping to see things done differently this season.
February 11, 2010 at 6:05 PM |
Dont like the Dansby pick up as a MLB in the 4-3. Not a very physical player. I like him at the Will, in the 4-3. Great in coverage, good athlete, strong blitzer, an all around playmaker
February 11, 2010 at 6:08 PM |
lol ff55ys…i dont think tom could survive another 7 years as head coach.
Thing that really sucks is that we missed the boat on a great strategist and leader with Spags. The Rams are an absolute mess, but i have no doubt that he will turn that mess around.
February 11, 2010 at 6:08 PM |
Dansby is one of the most scheme diverse players in the league. He will be fine in a 4-3.
C- Web will be back this year. Mark my words
February 11, 2010 at 6:12 PM |
Dansby would most likely come in and play the SAM position. He certainly can shed blocks. I’m not an idiot and I know it’s more about skill and technique than size, but still, when was the last time you heard of a 250lb weakside LB?
February 11, 2010 at 6:14 PM |
FF55- Exactly! Are we really going to trust the judgment about talent evaluation of this coaching staff, the one that allowed Nicks to sit on the bench while Hixon lit up the field? Or that continued to allow Danny Clark’s dumb ass trot around the field when it could have let the younger players get some reps?
Seriously, guys?
February 11, 2010 at 6:17 PM |
Giants stimulus plan… Dansby Strong side McClsin middle
End of debate
February 11, 2010 at 6:18 PM |
C-Web will be fine next year….that is if doesnt cover anyone with the last name Jackson. in 2009 WRs with the last name Jackson had 325 yards and 4 TDs against Webster.
February 11, 2010 at 6:19 PM |
C-web’s problem was scheme. How that fool Sheridan didn’t know he’s not a zone cover guy is beyond me. I think he slept through the 2 years we had Spags. But as someone pointed out long ago… he’s a Tim Lewis disciple.
February 11, 2010 at 6:21 PM |
SwantonBomb, come on, Spags had Mitchell cheating over to help Pierce stop the run throughout 2007. When OLBers can fight off blocks and pinch the runner inside it makes the MLBer’s life much easier, and you know that.
And the Giants do run a defense that relies on the MLB to set the front in their respective gaps and signal to the safeties what lanes are their responsibilities. I think that’s more difficult than the job on most teams.
But I’m done arguing about Goff. I never crowned him Emperor. I just think he’s better than all of you seem to think. I think he hasn’t had a chance to really show what he’s got. I think he could be a perfectly adequate MLBer. Are you forgetting that the Giants won a Super Bowl with a rapidly declining Antonio Pierce who in 2007 was barely able to do his job? You all act like we have to have great players at every position. My whole deal is that if the Giants can “get by” with Goff then Reese can focus on the other needs in this draft and probably come up with two “dominant” players. If he also signs Dansby then he’d have put this defense back in the driver’s seat if everyone gets healthy.
Just as a thought experiment, why don’t all you guys who think we “have to get McClain or Spikes” think about what that does to the rest of our draft. Reese would have to use his first pick or make an incredible trade to get to Spikes with his second pick high in the second round (if he was extremely lucky). There would be no Mays, no top O-lineman, no Price or Odrick or Williams, no Spiller or Best. It wouldn’t have to be a “bad” draft, but I like the alternative of a great draft + Dansby (who I would probably play at WILL, not MLB, because putting him behind Osi would be devastating) and “getting by” with Goff. Feel free to disagree, but I wouldn’t sound quite so certain if I were all of you.
February 11, 2010 at 6:21 PM |
Are any of yoconcerned about Dansby’s age? He’ll turn 29 during next season. 2 seasons and he’ll be AP’s age.
February 11, 2010 at 6:24 PM |
Kyle… what’s the next podcast gonna be about?
February 11, 2010 at 6:24 PM |
AP should be in his prime. He only declined because of booze, hookers, and buffet lines.
February 11, 2010 at 6:24 PM |
Hanshi… I think AP spun the odometer with fast living. LBs aren’t supposed to be old at 30.
February 11, 2010 at 6:25 PM |
High 5′s shmitty LOL
February 11, 2010 at 6:27 PM |
Ironically the Cards have already dropped close to $20 mill the past 2 seasons on Dansby. Hard to believe they couldn’t have reached some sort of agreement given that they were willing to do that.
February 11, 2010 at 6:30 PM |
So does anyone think Warner is pulling a Favre? Retire… so they don’t test you… then PED till your eyes cross… flush them out and un-retire halfway into camp? Then have your best year at 40… a la Roger Clemens.
February 11, 2010 at 6:30 PM |
Kirk Morrison is the name people have to watch out for, he is a solid player surronded by nothing really
Pisa Tinoisamoa he is a good player who could really help this D.
Cato June, he is not a MLB but still a solid player
Rocky McIntosh, if the giants can pullthis one off, it will remind me alot like the AP signing.
these are just some names that i feel the giants can get on the low. this is a great year for LB in the FA. thier are at least ten guys i would love to see in blue that is due to hit the open maket. GOOOO GIANTS
February 11, 2010 at 6:40 PM |
I wonder if Fewell had any input on this…
February 11, 2010 at 6:52 PM |
gman24 – Morrison and McIntosh are both set to RFAs. Unless they get tendered less than a 1st round pick, they aren’t worth it. The majority of guys set to hit the market are going to be RFAs because of the lack of a cap, so I don’t think your list should be anywhere near 10.
February 11, 2010 at 6:54 PM |
Krow – Yeah let’s just make sure Pierce doesn’t somehow find his way back to the Giants, in any way, because he’ll turn Dansby into Terrence Cody.
February 11, 2010 at 7:01 PM |
Hanshi – I made note of Dansby’s age…which was and still is the MAIN reason I don’t want him. If we could get him for a few seasons AND get McClain…that’d be sick though.
February 11, 2010 at 7:02 PM |
Krow- AP, some things to watch out for in FA, the combine, and some mail bag questions.
AP provided for good radio. You should hear me go at it with the G101 views of AP vs the normal human views lol
February 11, 2010 at 7:15 PM |
Gman24- all those guys you listed aregoing to be RFA except June and he is garbage..Tampa cut him a year after giving him a big signing bonus….He is done
February 11, 2010 at 7:19 PM |
Kyle – I’m gonna be at the combine in a couple weeks. I’ve got a flip-cam and a digi-cam…anything you want me to look for on here??
February 11, 2010 at 7:24 PM |
Update up top
February 11, 2010 at 9:27 PM |
Anyone who has been around this team during the 80′s has some real high standards as far as linebackers and D-linemen are concerned.
The team featured some of the very best.
So looking at what is on hand now will always pale in comparision.
Please dismiss the idea of either Kiwi or Osi playing on the edge while standing. They are just not agile enough for the task.
I will say again, Reese has drafted some willing linbackers, and Goff and Kehl may very well be serviceable. However, none of them will ever cause a offensive coordinator to lose sleep on Saturday nights in the fall.
The only interesting prospect I see is Sintum. I do not claim to have seen every game, but I watched Goff in his initial start, I watched Kehl against the Stellers in what was his best pro outing. Not one time did I witness either explode into a ball carrier or a reciever crossing the middle of the field.
Perhaps I am still spoiled, but I can not honestly say that either possess the killer instinct that make offensive players mindfull of their location on the field.
I am willing to give them a chance to prove otherwise. Simply because I am not sure how much the coaching mantra retarded their development.
I am certian of this however, neither McClain or Spikes would have to undergo a breakin period to put their helment into a ball carrier’s chest, or knock the living $h!7 out of a careless or cocky WR or TE between the hash marks. You do not teach linebackers aggression, you teach them to temper their aggression within the flow of the defense.
As for Sintum, he may not be a true backer. Perhaps an under sized DE. But he does possess the instincts to rush the passer.
That in and of itself means he has a natural mean streak. So if Osi does walk (which I hope he does not) Sintum has the stuff to take over. And even at 255 or so he has the strength to hold his own against the run. The kid is powerful and has a very quick initial move.
All this to say this defense has a giant vacancy sign at the linebacker position. They can fix that with either McClain, Spikes or both.
Somehow someway, the Giants need to field linebackers, a safety and a penetrating D lineman this off season. With money and balls, they may be able to utilize the FA market and the draft to do it.
February 12, 2010 at 1:15 AM |
When AP was thin he was a beast. His body just broke down on him. But I will say one thing, he went out like a pro. He is no Tiki Barber no matter who had a better Giants career. I’ll miss yah AP. It was just time. You probably got an extra year with us anyway.
February 12, 2010 at 9:54 PM |
good point with the RFA but giving a second for a guy like shawn Marriman (lights out) idk how to spell his last name.
hell i would give a second for him and i would do the same with some of the other players mention